Robin Kelly - Guest: 0:00

This is Robin Kelly, and you're listening to One Hour to Doors.

Jon Stone - Host: 0:08

This is One Hour to Doors, a podcast about the business and goal of the festivals and events industry. I am your host, Jon Stone. Every episode of One Hour to Doors explores the people, issues, insights, and trends impacting the enterprise to bring people and communities together for a common cause. My guest today is Robin Kelly. Robin was the executive director of the Issaquah Salmon Days Festival in Washington State for 22 years. Issaquah Salmon Days is among the greatest and longest-running arts festivals in the Pacific Northwest, and it enjoys the deepest community support that I've ever seen around any of that. We are recording today from the heart of the festival, the Issaquah Salmon Hatchery. I'm excited for this conversation. Welcome to the show, Robin.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 1:00

Thank you, Jon. I'm thrilled with the opportunity not only to see you, but to talk about something that I love so much.

Jon Stone - Host: 1:09

When did we first meet? What's your earliest memory of me? I think it was about a hundred years ago. Yeah. I was gonna say 99.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 1:20

We crossed paths so many times, down at Summer Nights at the Pier and at Bumbershoot. I love music. And so um I met you through the the Sage Festival producers and workers, Jeannie Falls, David Doxstater. Um, and you were one of that crowd that I so admired.

Jon Stone - Host: 1:43

They were my they were some of my mentors.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 1:47

Mine too.

Jon Stone - Host: 1:48

And you. And of course, we've done a lot of stuff together through the Washington Festival and Event Association.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 1:55

We have, and that that's a great gathering for us because we have a chance to compare notes of what's happened in our personal lives and in our work uh lives. We don't often get to spend much time together during the year because we're so busy with our own jobs and families. And so getting away with WFEA at that conference gives us all a chance to be together where we're talking the same language. Yeah. We can compare notes and celebrate successes.

Jon Stone - Host: 2:27

There's something really, really special about being able to just sit down even for five minutes with somebody else that has the same roles and responsibilities and just be able to talk on a peer level.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 2:40

Yes, absolutely. It's hard to talk to somebody that's not in the profession about a lot of the dynamics that happen within the profession. And being executive director and leading that group, um, it's a very generous community. And that was one of the things I think that drew me to it and kept me in it, was that people were willing to share and talk and advise. And that's not always the case.

Jon Stone - Host: 3:12

So the profession, where did it all start with you in the world of festivals and events?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 3:19

Well, like many people that have been in the industry, I didn't come from this arena. It wasn't anything that we planned. I had come from a very conservative business background in banking and law. We'd been living in Washington, D.C., and decided we wanted to come back to the Northwest. And so we did. And I was doing some contract work in the professions that I was experienced in. And my sister Candy uh invited me to come and volunteer at Salmon Days, and it hadn't existed for long. I mean, we moved back here in the mid-80s, so we volunteered and it was really fun. So we volunteered again the next year. And then there was an opening on the staff of the festival. And I was in there volunteering, and they said, you know, we're hiring. Are you interested in applying for the job? And I thought, sure, why not? I loved art, it was so different than the world I'd come from. I enjoy the energy, um, the flexibility and fluidness of the arts and music. And so I came on staff, and then uh 26 years later, um I retired.

Jon Stone - Host: 4:52

Now you just said you moved back in the mid-80s and you made the comment that the festival was relatively young. What was the first year of Issaquah Salmon Days?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 5:00

Well, the first year in my mind, that that's probably confusing, but in my mind it was young because the weekend we got married, the day we got married um was in 1976 in October. And we didn't know that there was this festival called Salmon Days and that they were going to be closing the streets to our church. And we found out the day before, because it was a young, smaller festival, it actually started in 1970. Oh, okay. So so in 76 it was still pretty small. We weren't aware of it. I wasn't living in Issaquah, I was living in Seattle. Um and so we found out the hard way. What happens when you have festivals and you close streets and you have to make accommodations? And then we moved out of state. So I was gone for 10 years. So it still felt new when we moved back, but it it had grown and continued to grow.

Jon Stone - Host: 6:01

So you you kind of dropped into the biz in the mid-80s. At what point did you feel like you were you had become established? At what point did you feel confident, or did you have you ever reached that point?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 6:16

Um, I there were a couple of indicators for me personally. So I'd been at it for several years, and I had made lots of phone calls to very sage advisors like Jon Stone and Beth Knox and um a number of people that had been very generous with their time when I'd met them previously. And when I started getting calls from other people at other events asking me my advice, and I thought, oh my goodness. It was kind of a paradigm shift of I'm still learning, and these other people can learn from what I've learned. And that was wonderful. And then I was asked to speak at a WFEA conference and I went, that's cool.

Jon Stone - Host: 7:10

You have arrived.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 7:11

So those two things were the things that made me feel like okay.

Jon Stone - Host: 7:16

What did you speak on at that first speaking engagement?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 7:19

Um, it was about working with your community. Because Salmon Days takes up the downtown corridor of Issaquah. So we closed the two main streets. It's a hardship for many people because you can't move around the way you used to. Uh, some local people didn't like it because we were bringing all these people in and they didn't want them here. And so trying to create a symbiotic relationship so that they could enjoy the festival, making it as painless as possible when you do invite everyone. Because I was so proud of my community that I wanted all of those people to come.

Jon Stone - Host: 8:02

Let's back up for a second for the benefit of listeners who are unfamiliar with Issaquah Salmon Days. Here's how I would characterize it kind of an old school small town downtown area with two main streets, both of them just two-lane roads, one lane in each direction, with storefronts right up on the road. And salmon days closes down all of that to the vehicle traffic, and the festival sets up in those streets. And it's uh, I don't know how many linear feet total, but I always remember there was something like 800 craft booths or 800 booths or something like that at its peak, but it effectively shuts down traffic for this entire downtown area. Is that accurate?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 8:45

It is. There weren't quite that many booths, but we did have uh at the peak, probably about 500 arts and crafts booths, and then, well, maybe you're right, and then food and nonprofits stages. And yeah, at one point we had five different stages. We had a parade um that kicked off the festival on a Saturday. A lot of dynamics and a lot of closures. We took up a downtown park that's right in the middle of town and uh turned that into the field of fun.

Jon Stone - Host: 9:17

So with that kind of a presence, you have to have community buy-in. You have to have a critical mass of it. So you're talking about how in the earlier days, you know, folks weren't necessarily all too pleased by that. But tell me about like how what has been the state of community relations? Like, how does that all work? And how is it that this community came to embrace it and and and continue for so long?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 9:46

Uh, a lot of conversations. People would see us on the street when we go out and be walking around and ask us questions throughout the year. And so they felt like you were listening to them, and we were. You know, for us to be able to get the citizens in and out of their residences was important. That was one of their frustrations, is I live here, I you're closing the street or it's blocked or whatever. So making sure that we heard what their challenges were and addressed them the best we could, given the dynamics of the event. If it was a business who was going to be closed, we would put a booth in front of their closed business. If it was a business that was going to be open and we encouraged them to be open and take advantage of the crowds that were here, then we'd leave an opening for their business so that people could discover them. Having all of those people load in, we weren't given permission. And this was always something that people were surprised at when we would talk about the festival and the the schedule of the festival. Because it was the downtown corridor, it is the downtown corridor. Um, we couldn't close the streets on Thursday and Friday to do setup the way a lot of events are in parks or the Seattle Center. So you can do setup, you know, the whole week before your event. Here, we couldn't start setup until Friday after rush hour. So, say six o'clock or so. Um, we could mark the street the day before, so we could put slash marks and the booth numbers so everyone knew where they were, but we couldn't physically do anything. And it was very limited what we could do Friday night. So we could do some advanced setup off of the street, in the park, on the hatchery grounds, but everything else had to happen Saturday morning. And so that's a lot. It's a lot of people to get into town setting up and having their cars removed from the street by nine o'clock, so they could start setting up at 6 o'clock a.m. They had to be done by nine o'clock and move their cars off the street, and the festival opened at 10. And that's a lot to have happen in that short amount of time when you're talking about that many vendors. Then on Sunday night, we had to break it all down because the expectation was Monday morning, our citizens wouldn't know it happened, and they the town would be cleaner than it was when we found it. So Monday morning, people were driving to work, and you wouldn't have known the festival ever happened. That was that was something that I learned was very unique to salmon days. And so working the businesses and the citizens into that mix and making sure that we were doing the best that we could under that environment to make it be successful or pleasurable for them was really important.

Jon Stone - Host: 12:59

It is a relatively unique in Seattle, Fremont Street Fair, similar kind of load-in, load out timeline constraints. And uh Ballard Seafood Fest, similar kind of load-in, load out constraints. Matter of fact, in Ballard, we couldn't you couldn't start loading in on Ballard Avenue, right in Old Town there, until like 2 05 a.m., until after all those bars closed. And that was always those are some I have memories, you know, being kind of scary. It's like on one hand, it's like, okay, we can start now, but watch out. Absolutely. Until all those last of these cars get out of here, you know. Yeah. Community outreach, that's what we're talking about, has always been best practice. But in this region, you know, within our lifetimes, it's become mandatory, like a condition of permit practice in a lot of cities. And so I see a lot of organizations, a lot of events kind of doing the mandatory minimum requirements. That is not what I have seen you and your team do in Issaquah. When you do community outreach, it's real. You spend, I imagine, an enormous amount of time, but it's real. And I've I've seen with my own eyes the relationships, the I presume lifelong relationships you develop with some of these folks. And it's not always roses, it's not always hugs and kisses. There's some tension there, but there's also mutual respect there. And it's just fun to watch. You know, it's an investment. Uh as I said, it takes having, you know, having practiced that myself, it does take an enormous amount of time, but you can't look at that in a liability sense. You have to look at that as a long-term investment that hopefully outlasts our own involvement in the event.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 14:51

I totally agree in that it's so important. And I think that the reason we were able to overcome a lot of the difficulties is that we could respect each other and we could agree to disagree. I mean, sometimes you just couldn't find um uh a common ground that was perfect. But but they knew we were trying. It was really important to me. I modeled that to our staff that if someone's coming in here and frustrated, we need to listen to them. Sometimes we can't fix it, but they know that you've heard them. They they know you understand, and that makes a big difference to them. And I remember the feeling when I first took over as director, when I, you know, was honored and selected as the new executive director. I remember hearing someone say, Well, at least you're not one of those outsiders who's coming in to just take over. And so I realized what they were saying, and that they knew that we were listening to them and we cared. We weren't somebody from the big city that was doing something completely opposed to what they wanted. One of the other reasons I think that it was successful was we made a point, it was our mission to support as many of the nonprofits in our community that we could. So generally, we would work with 60 different nonprofits that either were um located in Issaquah or benefited the Issaquah community. Now that meant the high school cheer club or the Koanas or the Rotary or, you know, a number of different churches who would have pay parking lots or the salmon barbecue or different things. So a lot of that energy and effort that we put in all year to bring all those people here, we were sharing with the community. So it became the largest fundraisers for many of those groups. And that helps them understand that it's to their benefit as well. So if you think of 60 nonprofits and all of their members benefiting and being a part of this event, then it makes it a much bigger impact in a positive way. You know, we were making money and we were sharing so they could make money. And it was really unheard of at the time for any event to have that many nonprofits participating, where we are giving up, if you will, uh, giving up viable arts and crafts booth spaces who paid a lot more for these nonprofits. But we that was part of our mission, was we were supporting them because the impact of the event was on them and our residents and the businesses. So supporting them in this way through the nonprofits felt like a really good um agreement of how we could work together.

Jon Stone - Host: 18:11

Now, Sal mon Days has always been a free event. What is, I presume the principal revenue source is sponsorship?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 18:21

Sponsorship and booth fees.

Jon Stone - Host: 18:23

Oh, booth fees. Okay, and many, many, many booths.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 18:26

Many, many, many booths. The other uh source of income was some of the activities like the Kiwanis or the rotary, although we were giving that booth space or that activity to them, they paid us stipend back. So that was part of the income stream as well. But we worked with a number of sponsors every year, and it was kind of contrary to the industry normal. And I remember often being pointed to for what you shouldn't do because they called it sponsor soup. Um, because we worked with so many sponsors and we were trying to make sure they had recognition for what they were doing. But it was really important to me to have it not only be free, but to have activities free. So Issaquah is a really diverse community. There's a lot of high-end income here, but there's also a lot of blue-collar, low-income, subsidized meals at our schools. I wanted everyone to be able to come to Salmon Days and have that same fun. You know, so that's what we worked really hard to create. So all of the activities that we might have had, the pony rides or the climbing wall, or um a number of different activities in the field of fun, that park that we had. Yeah, each of those was sponsored by a company who maybe wouldn't have had $50,000 to sponsor the whole park so it could be free. But they had $5,000 that could pay for the activity and help subsidize the event. And so you could come if you had two kids or four kids and $20 in your pocket and spend the day. You might have to wait in line, but you wait in line even if you're paying for things. You know what I mean? And so you could come and spend the day and have fun. And if you had a great time, come back the next day and do it again. All of those things were free, and that was such a big part of my mission personally was to make sure that we were inclusive and invited everyone to come and play with us.

Jon Stone - Host: 20:40

Right. Has salmon days always had relatively stable profitability over the years or wild swings or um generally pretty stable.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 20:51

Uh one of the things that we did that uh I know they had done differently before I came was they used to take percentages from all the arts and crafts spenders, which there were many. And it was decided that we were just going to have a flat fee. So we knew if we had 400 arts and crafts booths that we were going to collect X number of dollars, no matter what their sales were. So if it was a rainy weekend and they didn't sell as much, they didn't suffer any extra pain because of it. Uh, if it was a great weekend and they sold a lot, they reaped the benefits. I mean, it's not an easy life, and so it felt appropriate to make that accommodation. It gave us a predicted and and uh stable income based on it. Where we where we still took percentages, and because it's an industry standard pretty much was the food booths. Um, but it was based on a uh cap. So they had to make a certain amount of money. So in those rainy years, if they didn't make a lot and they didn't hit that cap, they didn't owe us extra. But if it was a great weekend, then they would pay us. So that would be the variable. But we knew that their booth fees for the food and the the arts were uh already collected and in the bank before the event came. So we we put ourselves in a position where we could be impacted less by the weather, and we are in the Pacific Northwest. And salmon days is in October because that's when the salmon are here.

Jon Stone - Host: 22:35

Yeah, yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I can't help but think about how much work it would be to actually collect percentages on 500 different crafts booths. I mean, man, there's a point of diminishing returns in there somewhere.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 22:50

Absolutely. And so that's when we looked at that, it was like, okay, really, what are we gaining? We're putting them in a position where maybe perhaps they're not totally honest. And so let's just strategize and have it be this other model. Perhaps we'll have this other model where they're not put in that position. And it's it was so much easier on us.

Jon Stone - Host: 23:18

Do you know what was the genesis of salmon days? Like, why did somebody at some point say, let's have a festival and call it salmon days?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 23:29

What happened was there was a a community event. Issaquah had like every community um uh celebration. And I remember Norm Langill talking about this one time, who was um the mastermind for One Reel, and he was talking about community gatherings and celebrations through time. And during the depression, when everyone was obviously without money, they would collect their food stamps, you know, their uh coupons with the food rations, uh, and and have a celebration, have a block party or whatever. I mean, and just through time, it's always been a pivotal part of a community. And Issaquah was no different. Back in the day, uh, there was a rodeo that was here, and there were no floating bridges, and people would take like the stage, uh, a stage coach to come out, and there'd be cowboys and horses, and they'd have a rodeo. Then that died down, and they started having a Labor Day celebration. So when I grew up here, they it was Labor Day, and so uh my birthday is September 3rd, which is often over Labor Day weekend. So I was convinced that this was a big birthday party for me. And I was pretty proud of that. Um, I would make a little uh parade unit. I mean, who knew what that would turn into later in my life? But I would make a wagon and have a birthday cake on it or whatever and participate in it. That's what all of the locals did. And they would have firemen and policemen tug-a wars and all of the different things that you hear about in days gone by. Um, and it was wonderful. And everybody would come together and just enjoy each other's company. And I've heard differing opinions of why it died. Um, either, and probably it's both, uh, there was a lack of volunteers and it was volunteer dependent because it there wasn't a paid person helping put it on. And also that alcohol consumption had uh grown to a level where it was problematic. So Labor Day died. And then the Chamber of Commerce, the president of the Chamber of Commerce in Issaquah said, we need some celebration. We miss being able to gather like that as a community. And so he said, Why don't we do it when the salmon are coming back? Because people are coming here to see the salmon. It's such a unique opportunity. The the hatchery is right here in the middle of town. So people are coming anyway. Let's do it when the salmon are coming. So they looked at the National Weather Service and found the most predictably good weather during salmon spawning season, which happened to be the first weekend in October. And so in 1970 was the first salmon days, the first weekend in October. And it's just grown and and and morphed and changed in a way that the community really enjoys coming together and celebrating.

Jon Stone - Host: 26:47

Issaquah, even just over the duration of the festival lifespan, it has changed so much. The downtown still somehow magically retains that original vibe and it's living and it's thriving. It's not like a time capsule or anything like that. It's still the heart of Issaquah in a lot of ways. What's the what's the secret for Issaquah? How have they maintained that vitality in the old downtown for so long?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 27:19

Well, it's it's not magical at all. It's with a lot of support from our city. You know, the city understands from the citizenry that the downtown area is iconic. And so they have really protected it through all of this growth. So there's there are a lot of uh rules and guidelines if you're going to have businesses in the downtown area, if you're going to build in the downtown area, height restrictions, all of those things. And so they they knew the growth was coming. We were within the uh urban boundaries of the rural urban um guidelines. So we knew that growth was coming, and we were actually mandated to accept a certain amount of growth. So it's happened in in planned communities like the Issaquah Highlands, but the downtown core has been kept as much as possible architecturally to look the way it always did.

Jon Stone - Host: 28:19

Has salmon days aspired to maintain any kind of feel? Is that something you even think about? Is it the same festival today as it was 30 years ago?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 28:32

No. No, but not in a bad way. It's changed as the community's changed. And, you know, what the community wanted 30 and 40 years ago because they were smaller and not as connected, and what they looked for and what was really successful at that time has changed because the people are different, how they move is different, and what they're interested in is different. And so that was always something that we would revisit each year. We we called it the sunset rule. And it meant that there wasn't anything wrong with an activity or a program, but that maybe its time had come and the sun was going to set and we were gonna move on to something else. And so that would be one way that we would move along with what the community or the attendees were looking for. You know, it used to be that it was um unique and different to have a bike ride. And so we had an organized bike ride for many years. We had a sporting weekend um for many years, and it was the weekend before Salmon Days, so we always considered Salmon Days for two weekends. So the first weekend was a sporting weekend, and we did an organized bike ride. You could choose three different distances, and it was a family ride, it wasn't a competition, and it was really fun and well attended, and then the attendance. Started dropping down a little. And then there was a big road construction that took out a major uh intersection of where we needed the bicyclists to go. So we had to put a pause on it for a couple of years. And when the road construction was finished and the overpass was finished, then we looked at it and said, is this really something that we need anymore that the public's looking for? And they weren't. There were many, many bike rides and organized clubs, bike clubs that were going every weekend. And so we just decided it was the sunset rule and it was time to change.

Jon Stone - Host: 30:35

This is a really important topic that we've kind of stumbled into here. When you have rapid population growth, how do you know what the new population wants or needs?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 30:51

Um, we can see it happening. We would always look uh look ahead. Salmon Days had the benefit and luxury of being kind of the last festival on the circuit. And so as by by virtue of the calendar, okay by virtue of the calendar. And so we could talk to colleagues as events as folk life and daffodil festival and tulip festival, as those were cycling through the season, we were visiting those events, we were talking to the people at the events and seeing what they were seeing. And we could, in some ways, be nimble enough to make changes by October when our event would actually happen. So some of it was feedback from what we were seeing industry-wide. Also, then we were just talking to school kids. We were, you know, we're so involved in the community. We knew the people that were moving here, and they were from different cultures. And so we were looking at, okay, what resonates to them? What would they be looking for? Often they were looking for how to integrate into this community. So they didn't need us or want us necessarily to change anything. They were moving here and wanted to see what it was like to now be a resident of Issaquah or Bellevue or Puget Sound.

Jon Stone - Host: 32:23

Western Washington state has undergone a remarkable period of population growth over the last, I don't know where how you want to mark it, but let's just say 20 years, a level of sustained population growth that most cities, most regions around the world will never experience. That said, as that population growth was happening, there was also a huge population turnover, meaning people that had lived here for a long time were leaving. And there's just been this wholesale transformation of who even lives around here. One of the results of that wholesale population growth and change is learning that the notion of tradition relies on a large group of people living in the same place in the same time. And when they leave, as they have in this region over the last 20 years, so does that sense of tradition. There's new people arriving now, and they're not only are they obviously not invested in the local traditions, but they're bringing to the region their own traditions. They're looking to set down their own roots. And so managing, just kind of staying ahead of, or at least on top of that severe curve of change. I think that Issaquah Salmon Days has done as well of a job managing that as any event that I've seen over that time period. I know a lot of events, heck, a lot of events I've worked on have really struggled to figure that out. Most festivals, most special events, they don't last forever. And I think that's one of the reasons because over time, healthy communities change and evolve.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 34:06

Well, I think it I totally agree. And that was something we were very aware of also, because we were talking to our colleagues and we were hearing stories. We were hearing about attendance and purchases, um, which are important because if you're bringing 400 artists in, they're hoping to sell their wares. And so if you're if you're not attracting enough people with the intent of seeing art and enjoying art while they're here and participating in the other activities, then you'll start losing. It's really a vicious cycle of if you can't get the vendors to come or quality vendors to come and sponsors to help make things free, partners, then how does that impact you? Because pretty soon you won't have as much of that attraction for us. I'm speaking for salmon days. The free things people always really appreciated all of the activities, even if they could have afforded to buy tickets. What a joy to not have to worry about it. And having all of those arts available for you to come and see. And um, we also had a luxury of being one of the last festivals before the holidays. So there was a lot of gift buying, people looking ahead, finding something unique at the festival that you could give to somebody for Christ at Christmas. So we knew that we could identify those things.

Jon Stone - Host: 35:45

It sounds to me like you have used art and craft vendors as a sort of economic and cultural barometer of the environment.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 35:57

Yes. Yeah. We would watch the trends. We started years ago, even though remember, I said that we weren't collecting percentages from the arts and crafts vendors, we found there was a void after the event in really understanding what our attendees were doing. And so I started sending surveys out to the arts and crafts vendors and saying, we we'd like your sales numbers for Saturday and for Sunday, so that we can understand what's bringing people here, where they're spending their money. If if you're not making enough as a jewelry vendor, then perhaps we have too many jewelers. And we want to make that adjustment so there's enough for the public to see and enough diversity, but also not so many that the vendors can't make money, because that's really important. And so that that's part of keeping your finger on the pulse of what's happening and what's going on and what are people looking for. Again, all of those new people that were moving here, often they were looking to attach themselves to that tradition because they were new. They wanted to know more and feel more connected to this community. And because we're celebrating something of nature, the salmon coming back, you know, the salmon are still coming back. And it's still a miracle that you can be right in the middle of downtown Issaquah and look eye to eye with the great big salmon. And so we have the benefit of that natural occurrence happening, and then we program around that so that yes, you get to see those salmon, and you can hear all of these different kinds of music on the different stages. You can watch your kids march in the band, in the parade. Um, and you can have all of these different foods. And so we always made sure it was salmon-centric. And there'd be a number of food vendors that featured salmon. There'd always be a number of art vendors that featured native and natural images. And so if you knew somebody who was a fish lover or nature lover, you knew you could come here and find something for them. We would have uh different fish theme things. I mean, we'd have activities like you know the game Hot Potato, you know, where you'd throw it around. So we did that one year with one of our radio sponsors, but we threw a fish around. So it was a simple thing, but it was a tweak enough that made it fun, and we'd invite people from the public to participate. So always trying to have something new and different. So when the attendees would come, if you'd lived here forever or you just moved here, you would find traditional favorites. We knew from surveys what people were coming for. So we made sure that the sunset rule, you know, didn't apply to those. If that's what was still viable and attractive to the visitors, we wanted to know that. So if that was the case, those things were still here, but we always had a number of new things every year. So come and see your favorite things, the parade, the stages, whatever. And now, did you know we have the dock dogs jumping and that we have this and we have that? So now we have all of those, these new things that maybe you hadn't seen before. Um, the petting zoo. I remember people making fun of us because we were having a petting zoo in Issaquah. How silly was that? And I said, No, back in the day that might have been silly because everyone had animals, but that's not who Issaquah is anymore. And sure enough, it was so popular. We had to give them breaks so the animals could have a respite from all of the attention that they were getting. But those were all things that that we knew from watching, watching the people and watching what was happening and seeing what they were interested in and making those adjustments each year.

Jon Stone - Host: 40:20

The salmon in a lot of ways are kind of like the headliner that never goes out of style. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 40:28

I mean, uh you can't turn on the news or read a paper almost daily without some report in one way or another referencing the salmon.

Jon Stone - Host: 40:41

What has the political environment been like over time? Has the city always been a strong supporter of the festival?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 40:48

I used to go to the WFEA conferences and different seminars, and I would listen to people tell stories about working with their communities and their cities and their fire department, police department. And I would just count my blessings because our city was so supportive. We would have a planning retail uh PRT team, and what it was was the heads of all of these departments or somebody from all of the different city departments. And I would propose my permit for the year. It was, you know, 20 or 25 pages that had the layout, um, the different components, the fire requirements, all of those different elements that planning review team. Sorry, I knew it would come back to me. So this group would sit in the room with me and they would go through that report and ask me questions about how I was going to make things happen and how traffic would move. And for the first many years, um, they went page by page and had questions. And here's one of the times where I felt like I'd made it. When I got to the point with that group where we would sit down and I would hand out my packet to everybody, I would give them a pin because they always wanted whatever the festival pin was that year. That was always a treat. And when I knew I I had been successful in my planning, was we would sit down at the table and they would just turn to the back page to see what was new or different. They would, they would just, the other pages they knew that we what we said we were going to do, we would do, and they could count on it. So they would use their time and attention just to address changes um to the plan. And one of the things I always felt so honored to be in this city and be working with these people was they were always trying to find a way to yes. You know, when when I would propose something, you could see them maybe roll their eyes, but they still were with me. It was like, okay, this is what you want. Okay, how can we make that work? And over all of those years, I think the only time it didn't work was um we have a sister city in Morocco. And and so I heard about this activity where they could bring camels and you could have camel rides. And I thought, oh, what a great way to highlight our new sister city in Morocco is to have these camel rides. So I put that in my permit request, and the risk officer said, Um, are they insured? And I said, Yeah, they're insured. And she said, Well, can you send me a copy of their policy? Send me their paperwork. I said, Of course. So I sent her over the paperwork, and she took it upon herself to research it more. And it turned out that the way they had their insurance structured didn't really protect us. And so she came back to me and she said, Robin, if you really want this, I'll sign off on it. But you need to know that what they're giving you isn't giving you the protection you think it is. And as soon as she said that, and I knew that she was looking out for us, not them. I thought, no, if she says no, that's a sign. That was the only time that it wasn't just a rubber stamp of okay, yep, go for it. So we missed out on camel rides.

Jon Stone - Host: 44:39

But you deepened your relationship with the city planners.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 44:43

Yeah.

Jon Stone - Host: 44:43

It felt it felt like we were a team. What festival or event other than salmon days do you most admire these days?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 44:54

I love the Winthrop Rhythm and Blues Festival.

Jon Stone - Host: 44:57

Oh, excellent choice.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 44:59

It's it's out there. You have to work to get to it. It's not easy, but it's this wonderful setting with uh just some of the most marvelous musicians that you can see um in this intimate setting. And I I just love the feel of it, and I love the quality of musicians that it brings and the atmosphere that you're in, because as much as I've loved Bumber Shoot and I I went every year, um, it's a bigger, different feel. You know, it's a big concert venue. And Winthrop Rhythm and Blues is an intimate setting where you really feel like you have a relationship with the people on the stage.

Jon Stone - Host: 45:45

In terms of your career development in this industry, who is your most important mentor?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 45:55

Probably Jeannie Falls and Beth Knox.

Jon Stone - Host: 45:59

Say more about that.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 46:01

Jeannie Falls was the director of Salmon Days when I was the vendor manager. And I learned a lot from her from watching her, um, from understanding or watching her uh thought process about how things would work and her amazing creativity. I mean, she would come up with these ideas and then we figure out how to implement them. But she also had attention to detail, and she understood both sides of it. Often that's not the case. Um, but she she was just um an amazing person to be around. And probably I probably stayed in the industry because of her, because what she taught me and what I learned, and I admired her so much. And and I probably in my mind thought if if this is what she values and this is important, then yeah, I'm in it. And Beth Knox was the other person I mentioned. She was one of the people who made herself always available for questions. Um, she was at Seafair for years, and that's when I first met her. When we would have a float from Issaquah Salmon Days that would go to the Seafair Torchlight Parade. She was the parade coordinator. So I was calling her from Issaquah, asking how we were gonna get our float there and we needed a loading dock, and you know, so I started conversations with her when I was new or newer, and she was uh had more experience than I did, but she grew on to so many great things after that. But she shared her wisdom and was always open and receptive to questions and phone calls. And um, and so I really appreciated that as well.

Jon Stone - Host: 47:58

When you think about the future generations that are going to come along and hopefully want to pick up the torch and carry on traditions like Issaquah salmon days, or maybe start a new festival, a new celebration in their own community, what advice would you give to the next generations in terms of positioning themselves for leadership in the event industry? That's a great question.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 48:28

Because it's changing and has been changing for the past several years, I think embracing tradition and learning, old school methodology, if you will, and bringing technology into it and embracing that and trying to meld the two together for your outcome is important. Capitol Hill Block Party grew from, you know, a couple guys on a laptop to a pretty big event. And and that took creativity, flexibility, um, and I think that that's still what it's going to take. It's dedication and willingness to work hard is really important to be successful. Finding the right people to work with, trying to be positive when sometimes it doesn't feel very good, and push through that because the end result is spectacular. You know, there's nothing better than to be at your event and see people smiling and enjoying it, and they don't need to know what into it, but a lot went into it to have it be running smoothly so they can smile and enjoy it. So um having that wherewithal is um a skill, being fluid and working hard. Um, I think also listening to what people want. You know, I I remember somebody asking about an event in Issaquah, planning a new event, which is always a great idea. I I love that exploration. But you also have to understand what people are looking for because you can plan a great event, but if people aren't interested in whatever it is, doesn't matter how well you planned it. You have to make sure that there's uh uh desire for whatever it is. If it's a foodie event or an alcohol event or a rodeo, um, you know, today would a rodeo do very well in Israel? Probably not, but the people who want it will find one and so they'll go to Ellensburg.

Jon Stone - Host: 50:48

Right. So trying to make sure that you're you're open to whatever the possibilities are, and understanding that that's more likely than not going to change continually.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 51:04

Yeah, I think that that's the reason that I did stay in it so long was part of the fun and challenge was that it there's so much of it that's fluid. So even though you know seven days is 53 years old, and so people assume, well, it's the same every year. No, it's it's not. Every year there's a change. They they redid the downtown streets and added bump outs, which changed where the vendors could go. They uh tore down City Hall and built a new complex, they moved the library so almost every year there was one thing or another that made us have to look at the layout again, look at the flow again, and work around whatever this new obstacle was, or it it might end up being an improvement ultimately, but in the middle of the process of building or redesigning, it can be pretty painful.

Jon Stone - Host: 52:04

Off the cuff, what is the darkest or worst salmon days memory moment that you have that you're comfortable sharing?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 52:17

The first year that I was executive director or director of the festival, we'd worked hard as you always do, getting ready for it. We went out Friday night to mark the streets in the pouring rain. Pouring rain. I was supposed to be at a formal dinner welcoming our guests. Um and and I would have gone home and changed, but there was just no way. So I went in my Gore-Tex coat, um dripping wet, and went over and thanked everyone for coming and excused myself to come back downtown to finish the marking, only to find out that much of the marking had washed off because it was raining so hard. So we got it all done. It was probably three in the morning, and I went home for a couple hours and put on some warm, dry clothes and came back down at five, which was our check-in time. And it was still raining, and I was out getting everybody loaded in and supporting the people that needed support. And um, I guess I stumbled back into headquarters and was literally incoherent. I was so cold and so wet and lack of sleep. And the person in charge of communications in headquarters saw me and took me aside and sat me down and took off my wet coat and got some worn clothes and some worn coffee. And I thought to myself, as I was kind of coming out of that, I thought maybe this wasn't what I was supposed to do, because if this is a sign, maybe I should listen to it. And so um we made it through that day, and I still kept having that thought of, you know, maybe maybe not. And the theme that year was salmon rain, R-E-I-G-N, but apparently the universe took it literally, yeah, because we had a day of rain, torrential rain. So I woke up on Sunday thinking, you know, this could be it for me. And the skies were blue and the sun came out and it was spectacular. And I thought, okay, that was just a test. And I think I passed. But that was that was pretty dark that first that first weekend.

Jon Stone - Host: 54:54

And what is your happiest, brightest moment in memory?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 55:01

Oh there are so many. I mean, there are just so many. But I remember we had a delegation from our new sister city, um, Chefshaw in Morocco. And they sent a couple of artists and a person from their city council for the festival that year. And so Saturday was always really busy. So I said, on Sunday, you know, about noon, I'll come and get you and let's go for a walk. Let's just let's just see the festival and relax together. And you can ask me any questions that you might have. So I did that, and we were walking through the town, and um I was explaining to them how we try to work with the community and work with the businesses and how we made money where we made money, because that was of course of interest to them. And at the end of the walk, they told me how impressed they were that I would take the time away from that to be with them, which surprised me because it was it was my honor to get to spend that special time with them. But the thing they said that was so significant was that they could never imagine bringing so many people together from different walks of life and cultures and have it be so happy and smooth and wonderful. They just couldn't imagine that kind of of a gathering being what it was and so pleasant. And I I just remember my heart just swelled. And I I thought, yeah, that's that's it.

Jon Stone - Host: 56:45

When you reflect on 22 years at the helm of the festival, what uh what do you think of as some of your proudest accomplishments?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 56:56

Um, one is the relationships that you mentioned earlier. I mean, they really are um a success to me. Lifelong friends, lifelong partnerships. Um, I still stay in touch with some of the sponsors that were sponsors 20 years ago. And um, that's that's a really special relationship. But the other thing I'm really proud of that I could champion here at Salmon Days was, you know, we're celebrating something of nature. And so that's really important, and I didn't want to lose sight of that. So um one year, I think it was uh 2010, um, we decided that we were gonna go all compostable. We wanted to be a green festival. It wasn't common then. Um, I met with a couple of different companies that are in that industry, and we came up with a a collaborative package where they were each going to sponsor a part of the cost to underwrite compostable serviceware. Okay. And so we had to write to all of the food vendors and find out what kind of containers they use to serve their food in. We explained what we were doing. We said if you want to be a vendor here, it's all or nothing. We're, you know, there's no way to be kind of um green or kind of compostable. So if you're gonna be a vendor, you have to agree to this. And so it was quite an effort. Um, we had to to put the order together of what all of these, you know, 70, 60, 70 food vendors would use and go through Food Services of America and place the order, and it would come in a in a trailer, a big semi-trailer, and then we had to distribute it to all of the vendors, and they would buy it, but they would buy it at a reduced price to make it affordable. And I remember at the time saying, you know, when this is in Costco, then it's mainstream. But at the time, those things weren't in Costco. And so it took us the first year we had um master composters, recyclers at all of the garbage stations to make sure that people sorted it correctly. And it probably took two or three years to have that be a really smooth process. But it was something I was really proud of implementing and insisting, even when it was hard, it was the right thing to do, it was the right message to be sending from this event that was so involved in nature and what happens in nature. And so I I'm really proud of that. You can't put that many people together and have all of that food and not create an incredible amount of waste. And and we did every year. Um, after we lost uh the master recycler composters being there at the event standing by the um the dumpsters or the the toters, one of our volunteers was very creative and he built a PVC frame with a window box over top. And so he had a window of what you would put in compost from the event. We'd we had the things like uh corn on the cob, uh french fries, whatever those items were that would go into the compost toter. Then the next window box had what would go in recycling. So it was a plastic pop bottle.

Jon Stone - Host: 1:00:47

Oh, so it's like a visual guide.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 1:00:50

That's it. Got it, got it, got it. Visual guide. And it that was a wonderful thing to have the people be able to um on their own make those decisions and buy into it. Um, what what we were finding was the toters were different colors in different communities. So you couldn't always count on the green or the blue or the gray because it could be brown. So the window boxes, shadow boxes made that really clear. And it was awesome to be able to stand there and watch our attendees go to the toters and make the conscious decision to sort it and have it be right. That was that was really incredible.

Jon Stone - Host: 1:01:33

Maybe I'm going out on the limb here, but perhaps in this region at least, festivals were probably a real driver of public education and public sentiment toward the transition from a society where we just chucked everything in the trash to where we're at now.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 1:01:53

Yeah, indeed. Our school children are learning it now. You know, it at the time it was really new and different, and not everybody was ready to buy into it, but but it just took a minute and then they went, oh, okay, yeah, we can do that. And schools do it now. I mean, festivals really do have the opportunity to introduce something to a large group of people in that really familiar setting where they're relaxed and and open to suggestion.

Jon Stone - Host: 1:02:28

You're walking into the store, you're gonna get an ice cream cone with two scoops. What are the flavors?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 1:02:36

Licorice. Ooh. And licorice.

Jon Stone - Host: 1:02:44

Okay, say more about that.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 1:02:47

Um, my mom's Canadian, and we spent a lot of our childhood at a beach community named White Rock. And um, one of the joys of the day was getting an ice cream cone. And one of the flavors of ice cream that I fell in love with, and my brother and sisters as well. We still talk about it to this day, was licorice ice cream. It was something we didn't have here, but you had it there. Not only did it taste really good, but as kids, your mouth was kind of blue afterwards, which was part of the pride of having just devoured it. I was literally at White Rock um two days ago looking for licorice ice cream. And um, they didn't have straight licorice, but they did have tiger ice cream, which was Orange Sherbert and Licorice together. Um, but there's just all these wonderful, pleasant memories connected to this beach and summer and licorice ice cream.

Jon Stone - Host: 1:03:50

Robin, thank you so much for your time today. It's been a wonderful conversation. I feel like we will have more in the future. Uh, any uh shout outs you want to give today before we wrap things up?

Robin Kelly - Guest: 1:04:02

Oh, well, thank you, Jon. It's been it's been great to be here and spend this time with you. And they're wonderful memories. And uh I'd like to shout out to my family and friends who help support me. It takes a village to uh support somebody in this industry.

Jon Stone - Host: 1:04:21

Oh, that's the truth. That's that's the truth.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 1:04:24

Um they volunteered, they babysat, they did kind of whatever was needed to get us through the next bump.

Jon Stone - Host: 1:04:33

Thank you so much, Robin Kelly. We will talk again soon.

Robin Kelly - Guest: 1:04:38

Thank you, Jon.